"A super loose butt bouncing carver with killer end ballance"
Could it be possible to have more conflicting design traits in the same sentence lol...?
Corran
What should the next DR boat be?
Re: What should the next DR boat be?
by corran on Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:30 pm
- corran
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Re: What should the next DR boat be?
by flowmaster on Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:35 am
Dragorossi should continue to go against the trend. Really, I cannot see any stupid looking extra small easy to paddle plastic trash chunk box anymore that looks like a waist bucket.
Look at boats like the new bliss sticks or jacksons. They look so damn unimpressive whatever you do with them, except looping. Take a Riot Slice and put it on a wave, even if you don't do any tricks it looks much more impressive and cooler than any of the new spud boats if you just do a few spins with right technic, grils will tell you...
Dragorossi should continue to focus on carving and style to get kayaking as close as possible to real board surfing. Not just in terms of the latest performance speed and carving, but also in terms of looks. Build a short (at least 2 meteres) not to wide, nice looking surfboard like boat with not so much volume and defined ends which are not cut off. A DR Kayaker should feel as if he is a surfer without any big air tricks in mind, against the grain! DR will never beat Jackson Kayaks when it comes to competition crap and should not try to do so, you need a team for that that trains the hell out of their asses. The boats looks stupid and uncool on a wave because they look like crap on land. Get back some soul into kayak designs. And for god sake please provide differnet sizes for smaller paddlers and smaller cockpits.
DR Boats should look smooth and elegant because they surf smooth and elegant. DR Paddler want to be surfers, but unfortunately they have learned kayaking
Forget about tricks and butt bounce, just go for the carve and spin style and send out a different message to the kayaking community: Freestyle kayaking is about show and fun. Show means a person not involved in kayaking should look at a paddler on a wave and say, wow, say woman for example 
! Most people who are not into kayaking cannot even differntiate between an airscrew and an unfortunate "almost" washout recovery roll with those new small boats...they just look unimpressive whatever you do with them.
When the pros like Eric Jackson pull off in a stars it looks great, but take a medium to advanced paddler and it is not impressive to watch at all. Kayaking has gone backwards to gain attention because of short stupid looking boats. The average paddler needs a boat that surf like a fish in a completely new package and marketed in a completly new way. We have achieved speed and loosness but we did forget the style and message around that.
Many people would buy a kayak from the looks. DR Kayaks should only be available in white with defined decent really excellent designer graphics to stand out against all other kayaks. Not luxury or stuff like that, incorporate the surf feeling into your boats and people will buy bacause many people want to be different from the crowd. This is exactly the right time to make a change.
What boats should you build: DR Glide Reloaded - The Essence of Surfing A small super lightweight feature packed new glide in all white, not too difficult to paddle marketed at river surfing only neglecting tricks except spinning and carving eddy jumping. Not an intermediate or advanced design, a super easy to paddle pro design. Reduced volume to get closer to the surfboard look.
Because this is what most people do, they paddle down a river which is not too difficult and want to play on waves because this is what is really fun. Only very few people paddle down a river and do hole tricks, it is too dangerous for many in an often unknown often cold environment and too exhausting. DR is about paddling down a river with style and surf as much as you can, catch eddies as much as you can, because this is fun. But you have to market this in a way because people want to be cool heros bastards. Carthwheeling and hole moves are for ego but I personally don't feel fun during exhausting hole sessions, it cannot be compared to surfing and gliding. This is what you have to bring home to your customers. They don't have to pull stupid moves that look crappy to be super cool, they just have to be surfers on a river...a new sport......this can be marketed as the top end of pro kayaking "surfing hard" The boat should come with a POV movie like "surfing hard - this is pro kayaking on a river". Show how cool it looks to just surf, spin and carve hard on great locations with rock music backgound. Create the modern "endless summer" for kayaking
Cheers,
Surfer
Look at boats like the new bliss sticks or jacksons. They look so damn unimpressive whatever you do with them, except looping. Take a Riot Slice and put it on a wave, even if you don't do any tricks it looks much more impressive and cooler than any of the new spud boats if you just do a few spins with right technic, grils will tell you...
Dragorossi should continue to focus on carving and style to get kayaking as close as possible to real board surfing. Not just in terms of the latest performance speed and carving, but also in terms of looks. Build a short (at least 2 meteres) not to wide, nice looking surfboard like boat with not so much volume and defined ends which are not cut off. A DR Kayaker should feel as if he is a surfer without any big air tricks in mind, against the grain! DR will never beat Jackson Kayaks when it comes to competition crap and should not try to do so, you need a team for that that trains the hell out of their asses. The boats looks stupid and uncool on a wave because they look like crap on land. Get back some soul into kayak designs. And for god sake please provide differnet sizes for smaller paddlers and smaller cockpits.
DR Boats should look smooth and elegant because they surf smooth and elegant. DR Paddler want to be surfers, but unfortunately they have learned kayaking
Forget about tricks and butt bounce, just go for the carve and spin style and send out a different message to the kayaking community: Freestyle kayaking is about show and fun. Show means a person not involved in kayaking should look at a paddler on a wave and say, wow, say woman for example ! Most people who are not into kayaking cannot even differntiate between an airscrew and an unfortunate "almost" washout recovery roll with those new small boats...they just look unimpressive whatever you do with them.When the pros like Eric Jackson pull off in a stars it looks great, but take a medium to advanced paddler and it is not impressive to watch at all. Kayaking has gone backwards to gain attention because of short stupid looking boats. The average paddler needs a boat that surf like a fish in a completely new package and marketed in a completly new way. We have achieved speed and loosness but we did forget the style and message around that.
Many people would buy a kayak from the looks. DR Kayaks should only be available in white with defined decent really excellent designer graphics to stand out against all other kayaks. Not luxury or stuff like that, incorporate the surf feeling into your boats and people will buy bacause many people want to be different from the crowd. This is exactly the right time to make a change.
What boats should you build: DR Glide Reloaded - The Essence of Surfing A small super lightweight feature packed new glide in all white, not too difficult to paddle marketed at river surfing only neglecting tricks except spinning and carving eddy jumping. Not an intermediate or advanced design, a super easy to paddle pro design. Reduced volume to get closer to the surfboard look.
Because this is what most people do, they paddle down a river which is not too difficult and want to play on waves because this is what is really fun. Only very few people paddle down a river and do hole tricks, it is too dangerous for many in an often unknown often cold environment and too exhausting. DR is about paddling down a river with style and surf as much as you can, catch eddies as much as you can, because this is fun. But you have to market this in a way because people want to be cool heros bastards. Carthwheeling and hole moves are for ego but I personally don't feel fun during exhausting hole sessions, it cannot be compared to surfing and gliding. This is what you have to bring home to your customers. They don't have to pull stupid moves that look crappy to be super cool, they just have to be surfers on a river...a new sport......this can be marketed as the top end of pro kayaking "surfing hard" The boat should come with a POV movie like "surfing hard - this is pro kayaking on a river". Show how cool it looks to just surf, spin and carve hard on great locations with rock music backgound. Create the modern "endless summer" for kayaking
Cheers,
Surfer
- flowmaster
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Re: What should the next DR boat be?
by flowmaster on Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:43 am
...when it looks better than the hole stuff poeple will buy this boat and forget about small bounce crappy boats. New Boat, new video, new river surfing era.
People don't buy a product, they buy an advantage, a gain or avail! People don't buy a jackson kayak because they want to be better kayakers, loop higher etc. they want to be cooler get more reputation, attention, because they hope to loop higher with a better boat etc...but essentially they hope to get advantage, gain or avail.
Well, almost everybody can surf nowadays but it is not believed to be super cool if you can just surf, although this probaply the feeling which gives you the greatest pleasure. The reason why you are not pleased with this really good feeling alone is because you don't stand out against the crowd and you are not a super cool bad ass when you "just surf". This is where your new concept comes in: You have to build a convincig no bullshit unmisunderstandable message that surfing on a river wave alone is the coolest thing in a kajak, way cooler than looping etc. and that peopel who are good in holes suck with their boats on a wave and why...and the best thing is ..it is true.
Remember, almost everybody wants gain, advantage or avail. You can give this to the large crowd by creating a new message which heralds a new era of kayaking. You failed so far because you are still too far away from board surfing vibes design, background and style. No mystic, no message that answers the question: why am I cool when I buy a dragorossi, why am I a better kayaker in dragorossi, why am I cooler than the butt bouncing crowd. You told it, but we cannot feel it because there is something missing.
1. The media hype like videos are missing for dragorossi nothing new nothing special...like all other paddle videos, the boats surf great but the designs do not pass on the surfers feeling. The ads show boats that go big air instead of showing what is the real idea behind dragorossi. Corran, you can still pull off a new revolution and a change in kayaking you just have to rember why Riot was so successful and repeat the same in another way. Make river surfing popular with a new design in differnet sizes, not a river runner...a river surfer..and show them what it really means to be a river surfer...this is nothing ordinary...this is the essence of fun and coolness... this is playboating ....and most important....everybody can have it be it live it....
Make a new cool 20 Minutes mystical music video with top athletes (descreet the message must come by its own without telling) and your new super stylish river surfing kayak on top locations, with sunset surfing pov, without big air, just shred carve, spin and blunt waves, fast aggressive from a perspective that really shows the difference of DR Boats, the "carving speed". On most videos you can hardly see the difference. Connect it to board surfing, itroduce board surfing and the vibes to pass on the vibes to your new kayak category, after this video nobody will sit back in his trash can to pull a sippydidoowoo.
There is not a single video on the market that really can express the feeling, the mystery and the fun of surfing on a wave with a kayak, be it alone at dawn or together surfing a wave as an dynamic duo (x ing).
You have to ask yourself one question: A board surfer is cool when he surfs a wave and shreds it! Why isn't a kayaker that cool if he does just that in a kayak? You can even more enjoy this feeling in a kayak because you can relax more and surf for an infinite period of time.
Just Surfing incorporates: Friendship, Mystery, Fun, Extreme, Breakout, Relaxation, Alternative, Nature, Spirit, FREEDOM, The Surf Kayaking Family Crowd.. and many more.
Drago Rossi - the nane and the logo says nothing about surfing or that this is kayaking brand which is especially into surfing. D
People don't buy a product, they buy an advantage, a gain or avail! People don't buy a jackson kayak because they want to be better kayakers, loop higher etc. they want to be cooler get more reputation, attention, because they hope to loop higher with a better boat etc...but essentially they hope to get advantage, gain or avail.
Well, almost everybody can surf nowadays but it is not believed to be super cool if you can just surf, although this probaply the feeling which gives you the greatest pleasure. The reason why you are not pleased with this really good feeling alone is because you don't stand out against the crowd and you are not a super cool bad ass when you "just surf". This is where your new concept comes in: You have to build a convincig no bullshit unmisunderstandable message that surfing on a river wave alone is the coolest thing in a kajak, way cooler than looping etc. and that peopel who are good in holes suck with their boats on a wave and why...and the best thing is ..it is true.
Remember, almost everybody wants gain, advantage or avail. You can give this to the large crowd by creating a new message which heralds a new era of kayaking. You failed so far because you are still too far away from board surfing vibes design, background and style. No mystic, no message that answers the question: why am I cool when I buy a dragorossi, why am I a better kayaker in dragorossi, why am I cooler than the butt bouncing crowd. You told it, but we cannot feel it because there is something missing.
1. The media hype like videos are missing for dragorossi nothing new nothing special...like all other paddle videos, the boats surf great but the designs do not pass on the surfers feeling. The ads show boats that go big air instead of showing what is the real idea behind dragorossi. Corran, you can still pull off a new revolution and a change in kayaking you just have to rember why Riot was so successful and repeat the same in another way. Make river surfing popular with a new design in differnet sizes, not a river runner...a river surfer..and show them what it really means to be a river surfer...this is nothing ordinary...this is the essence of fun and coolness... this is playboating ....and most important....everybody can have it be it live it....
Make a new cool 20 Minutes mystical music video with top athletes (descreet the message must come by its own without telling) and your new super stylish river surfing kayak on top locations, with sunset surfing pov, without big air, just shred carve, spin and blunt waves, fast aggressive from a perspective that really shows the difference of DR Boats, the "carving speed". On most videos you can hardly see the difference. Connect it to board surfing, itroduce board surfing and the vibes to pass on the vibes to your new kayak category, after this video nobody will sit back in his trash can to pull a sippydidoowoo.
There is not a single video on the market that really can express the feeling, the mystery and the fun of surfing on a wave with a kayak, be it alone at dawn or together surfing a wave as an dynamic duo (x ing).
You have to ask yourself one question: A board surfer is cool when he surfs a wave and shreds it! Why isn't a kayaker that cool if he does just that in a kayak? You can even more enjoy this feeling in a kayak because you can relax more and surf for an infinite period of time.
Just Surfing incorporates: Friendship, Mystery, Fun, Extreme, Breakout, Relaxation, Alternative, Nature, Spirit, FREEDOM, The Surf Kayaking Family Crowd.. and many more.
Drago Rossi - the nane and the logo says nothing about surfing or that this is kayaking brand which is especially into surfing. D
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- Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:36 am
Re: What should the next DR boat be?
by tim on Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:19 pm
WORD!!!!
Exactly, DR needs to show people how cool it is to be in one of their boats.....not just tell us; then.....people will feel it.
Look how popular SUP is becoming......for christ-sake, most of the people doing it are on flat water or easy waves. The reason it's exploding is that...yeah.... it's fun.... but more importantly, people feel cool, on the edge and special for giving it a try....
Flowmaster has a great point.
-Tim
Exactly, DR needs to show people how cool it is to be in one of their boats.....not just tell us; then.....people will feel it.
Look how popular SUP is becoming......for christ-sake, most of the people doing it are on flat water or easy waves. The reason it's exploding is that...yeah.... it's fun.... but more importantly, people feel cool, on the edge and special for giving it a try....
Flowmaster has a great point.
-Tim
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Re: What should the next DR boat be?
by flowmaster on Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:09 pm
Hi,
SUP is just what I mean - Surfer coolness for everyone ( even if you cannot surf at all you can be a cool surfer now..if you believe the hype )
SUP is just what I mean - Surfer coolness for everyone ( even if you cannot surf at all you can be a cool surfer now..if you believe the hype
)- flowmaster
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- Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:36 am
Re: What should the next DR boat be?
by thegirl on Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:30 pm
I must really admit flowmaster is absolutely right! Dragorossi needs a complete image & style redesign and you should really not follow the young gun trend when it comes to playboating. I would love to see a beautyful harmonic and smooth "Imagine" kayak rather than a DR Kayak!! At my local spot I often feel like a dog without a tail when I paddle my friend's squashtail. It is really fast and great but personally I hate the looks of the tail, it does not look cool like a kayak and much less like kayak which is supposed to be a surfboard. I once had a Riot Booster 50, yeah that was great looking boat that really looked beautyful. I would have loved to have this boat in white.
You know what is possible in terms of boat design now. The squashtail is much more than many people need. Now your task is to build a beautyful boat that really looks like a kayak and which surfs really better than the rest of the gang. I also think a fish is what most people want to surf on river waves as a downriver playboat but you have to make it look better and offer more sizes. Flowmaster really knows what he talks about but I would call such a boat "Imagine 1" pro design features in an everybody package - all we have learned over the years combined in an easy package
. When people check out boats in shops most boats look clumsy, fast and ugly. The new imagine 1 should look delicate, smooth, unobstrusive, without hard edges on top, discreet like a woman with style 
among beer drinking man, an eye catcher!!
You know what is possible in terms of boat design now. The squashtail is much more than many people need. Now your task is to build a beautyful boat that really looks like a kayak and which surfs really better than the rest of the gang. I also think a fish is what most people want to surf on river waves as a downriver playboat but you have to make it look better and offer more sizes. Flowmaster really knows what he talks about but I would call such a boat "Imagine 1" pro design features in an everybody package - all we have learned over the years combined in an easy package
. When people check out boats in shops most boats look clumsy, fast and ugly. The new imagine 1 should look delicate, smooth, unobstrusive, without hard edges on top, discreet like a woman with style among beer drinking man, an eye catcher!!- thegirl
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Re: What should the next DR boat be?
by flowmaster on Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:21 pm
It's easy, the pintail has the volume of a booster 60 (58 gallons), just get out the volume of the pintail and you have a booster 50 with much better surf performance and do some changes of the pintail's tail shape to meet the smooth lines of the pintails bow, et voila -super cool surfboard . I would have bought a pintail immediatly but I was used to boat volume like the Booster 50, impossible to switch to a Booster 60 volume boat. 
Volume gets you further away from the water which is less fun.
My heart broke when I sat in the pintail and finally realized that this was the boat I always wanted but with way too much volume
.
. I would have bought a pintail immediatly but I was used to boat volume like the Booster 50, impossible to switch to a Booster 60 volume boat. Volume gets you further away from the water which is less fun.My heart broke when I sat in the pintail and finally realized that this was the boat I always wanted but with way too much volume
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Re: What should the next DR boat be?
by corran on Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:09 pm
OK, its gonna be either a "Large" mad Boy or a "smaller" Critical Mass.
We're still undecided as to which direction to take - the mad Boy is more fun to paddle, but its not the "all out" machine the CM is. The CM is the ultimate "keep you alive through anything" boat, but slower and less "fun) (read: slalom style) to paddle...
Corran
We're still undecided as to which direction to take - the mad Boy is more fun to paddle, but its not the "all out" machine the CM is. The CM is the ultimate "keep you alive through anything" boat, but slower and less "fun) (read: slalom style) to paddle...
Corran
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Re: What should the next DR boat be?
by thegirl on Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:15 am
No chance for a pintail xs boat like this 
http://www.soulboater.com/images/users/ ... 706259.jpg
http://www.soulboater.com/images/users/ ... 700797.jpg
http://www.soulboater.com/images/users/ ... 706259.jpg
http://www.soulboater.com/images/users/ ... 700797.jpg
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Re: What should the next DR boat be?
by corran on Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:03 pm
we need a bigger one before we need a smaller one
people are getting bigger
people are getting bigger
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